Sir William de Say, Baron of West Greenwich Kent

Male 1253 - 1295  (41 years)


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  • Name William de Say 
    Title Sir 
    Suffix Baron of West Greenwich Kent 
    Born 20 Nov 1253  Birling, Kent, England Find all individuals with events at this location  [1, 2
    Gender Male 
    Died >16 SPE 1295  West Greenwich, London, England Find all individuals with events at this location  [1, 2
    Person ID I50055  The Hennessee Family
    Last Modified 22 Nov 2017 

    Father William de Say, III, Knight, Lord of West Greenwich,   b. 1209, West Greenwich, London, England Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. Bef 12 Feb 1271, Rochester Castle, Kent, England Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age 62 years) 
    Mother Sibyl Marshal,   b. ~1213, Lenton, Lincolnshire, England Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. ~1270, Austria Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age ~ 57 years) 
    Married Y  [1, 3, 4
    Family ID F18528  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

    Family Elizabeth LNU,   b. 1255, Elsenham Manor, Essex, England Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 16 Sep 1295, West Greenwich, London, England Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age 40 years) 
    Married ~1273  [1, 2
    Children 
     1. Geoffrey de Say, III, 1st Baron de Say,   b. 1281, Birling, Kent, England Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. >3 Mar 1322, Elsenham Manor, Essex, England Find all individuals with events at this location  (Age 41 years)
    Last Modified 23 Oct 2022 
    Family ID F18527  Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

  • Event Map
    Link to Google MapsBorn - 20 Nov 1253 - Birling, Kent, England Link to Google Earth
    Link to Google MapsDied - >16 SPE 1295 - West Greenwich, London, England Link to Google Earth
     = Link to Google Earth 

  • Notes 
    • Privacy Level: Open (White)
      Sir William de Say formerly Say
      Born 20 Nov 1253 in Elsenham Manor, Essex, England
      ANCESTORS ancestors
      Son of William (Say) de Say and Sibyl (Marshal) de Say
      Brother of Agnes (Say) de Cheyney, Unknown (Say) Sudeley and Hawise (Say) Marshall
      Husband of Elizabeth (Unknown) de Saye — married [date unknown] [location unknown]
      DESCENDANTS descendants
      Father of Geoffrey (Say) de Say and Mary Saye
      Died before 16 Sep 1295 in West Greenwich, Kent, England
      Profile managers: Darlene Athey-Hill private message [send private message], Katherine Patterson private message [send private message], Ted Williams private message [send private message], and Magna Carta Project WikiTree private message [send private message]
      Profile last modified 6 Feb 2018 | Created 17 Jun 2014
      This page has been accessed 2,265 times.

      Categories: Magna Carta | Say-76 Descendants | Clare-651 Descendants.

      European Aristocracy
      William (Say) de Say is a member of royalty, nobility or aristocracy in the British Isles.
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      William Say is a descendant of a Magna Carta surety baron.
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      Discuss: MAGNA_CARTA
      Sir William de Say is a descendant of Magna Carta surety barons Geoffrey de Say and Richard de Clare.

      Contents
      [hide]
      1 Biography
      1.1 Property
      1.1.1 Manor of Saye's Court
      1.1.2 Birling Manor
      1.1.3 Sawbridgeworth Manor
      2 Sources
      Biography
      Sir William de Say was born on 20 November 1253 at of West Greenwich, Birling, Bourne in Bishopsbourn, Burham, & Cudham, Kent, England.[1] He married Elizabeth[2] circa 1273[citation needed]; They had 1 son (Sir Geoffrey, 1st Lord Say) and 1 probable daughter (Mary, wife of John de Northwode).[3] Sir William de Say died before 16 September 1295 at of Great Linton, Cambridgeshire, England.[4]

      "The wardship of his father's lands and heir had been granted by the King to Poncius de Mora, King's merchant, in discharge of the King's debts to him; but by September 1273 William had bought the custody of the lands. On 27 July 1276 he was granted protection, being about to go to Ireland for 3 years. In 1277 he was summoned to be at Worcester on 1 July to serve in person against Llewellin Prince of Wales; John de Say seems to have served in his place. In 1282 and 1283 he was summoned to Worcester to serve against the Welsh. By writ dated 30 September 1283 he was summoned to attend the Parliament at Shrewsbury. In 1287 he was summoned to appear with horses and arms at a military council at Gloucester: in 1294 to attend the King on urgent affairs immediately upon receipt of the writ, dated 8 June. On 14 June 1294 he was ordered to attend the King at Portsmouth on the affairs of Gascony; and on 15 July 1294 he was granted protection as going with Edmund the King's brother to Gascony. He married Elizabeth (b). He died on or before 16 September 1295." [5]

      After his death Elizabeth was assigned as dower the manors of Cudham (Kent) and Hamsey (Sussex) with an annual payment from the manor of Birling (Kent).

      Property
      Manor of Saye's Court
      "William his son succeeded him, and died anno 56 Henry III. holding this manor in capite by barony, and the repair of a house in Dover-castle, called, from its possessors, Saye's-tower. (fn. 10) His son of the same name, accounted at the Exchequer for twenty-seven fees of the honour of Magminot; that is, twenty-six of the old feoffment and one of the new, which shews the large extent of his possessions. He died anno 23 king Edward I. possessed of this manor, leaving Geoffrey his son and heir, (fn. 11) who married Idonea, daughter of William de Leyborne (who survived him) and died possessed of it, in the 15th of king Edward II. leaving Geoffrey de Saye, his son, who, in the 8th of king Edward III. obtained the king's charter for free warren for all his demean lands in his lordships of Greenwich, Deptford, &c. with the view of frankpledge and other privileges, and died in the 33d year of it, leaving William his son and heir, and Maud his wife, surviving, (daughter of Guy de Beauchamp, earl of Warwick) and three daughters, who afterwards became their brother's heirs, as will be further mentioned."[6]
      Birling Manor
      "Ralph de Curva Spina, or Crookthorne, as his name was Englished, resided at Comport, or Comford-park, in the north-east part of this parish, where this family continued till the reign of king Henry II. when they were succeeded in their possessions here by that of Magminot. (fn. 2) Walkelin de Magminot died without issue in the third year of king Richard I. anno 1191, and Alice, his sister became his heir, who carried this manor in marriage to her husband Geoffry, second son of William de Say, who in her right became likewise possessed of large estates at Deptford, Cowdham, and elsewhere in this county. (fn. 3) His descendant, William de Say, died possessed of the manor of Birling, in the 23d year of king Edward I. holding it in capite by barony, and in some old deeds Birling is stiled caput baroniµ de Say, that is the capital seat of his barony."[7]
      WikiTree's Chesney and Magminot lines seem to be somewhat confused. (See Geoffrey de Say (1135 - 1214): Notes)
      Sawbridgeworth Manor
      "In 1222 Geoffrey de Say, son of the last-mentioned Geoffrey, received the grant of a market to be held at Sawbridgeworth on Saturday. (fn. 18) By another grant the following year the day was changed to Friday. (fn. 19) William de Say, son and successor of Geoffrey, probably inclosed the park, for in 1237 he was allowed ten bucks from the king's forest of Essex to place in his park of Sawbridgeworth. (fn. 20) In 1245 he obtained a licence for free warren in his manor. (fn. 21) The extent taken at his death in 1272 mentions the park and warren. (fn. 22) William de Say, his son and successor, was presented before the commissioners of Edward I for having appropriated free warren on alien fees and on the lands of his tenants. (fn. 23) He claimed the liberties of gallows, view of frankpledge, assize of bread and ale, pillory, tumbrel and prison at Sawbridgeworth as belonging to the honour of Mandeville and exercised by his ancestors. These were allowed him. (fn. 24) William de Say died in 1295. (fn. 25)"[8]
      Sources
      ? Royal Ancestry
      ? Royal Ancestry
      ? Royal Ancestry
      ? Royal Ancestry
      ? Complete Peerage XI:473-4, (transcribed by Dave Utzinger)]
      ? Edward Hasted, 'Parishes: Deptford,' in The History and Topographical Survey of the County of Kent: Volume 1 (Canterbury: W Bristow, 1797), 340-371, accessed March 12, 2016, [1]
      ? Edward Hasted, 'Parishes: Birling,' in The History and Topographical Survey of the County of Kent: Volume 4 (Canterbury: W Bristow, 1798), 474-488, accessed March 15, 2016, [2]
      ? 'Parishes: Sawbridgeworth', in A History of the County of Hertford: Volume 3, ed. William Page (London, 1912), pp. 332-347 [3]
      See also:
      Richardson, Royal Ancestry (2013) Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 5 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham, (Salt Lake City, Utah: the author, 2013), volume IV, pages 567-570, SAY 8, entry for WILLIAM DE SAY.
      Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. IV, p. 562-563.
      Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. IV, p. 564.
      Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. III, p. 101.
      Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry, 2nd Edition, Vol. III, p. 497-498.
      Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry, 2nd Edition, Vol. III, p. 500-501.
      The complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain, and the United Kingdom, extant, extinct, or dormant, Cokayne, George Edward, (Gloucester [England] : Alan Sutton Pub. Ltd., 1987), vol. 11 p. 473, 474.
      Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem and Other Analogous Documents preserved in the Public Record Office (H.M. Stationery Office, London, 1904) Vol. 1: Henry III. Page 281: #813. William de Sey. Writ, 12 Feb. 56 Hen. III. "William de Say, his son, age variously stated as 18 on the feast of St. Edmund the King last, and 19 on the same feast, is his heir."

      end of this biography [2]

  • Sources 
    1. [S11852] "Sir John Say, III, of Broxbourne (~1419-1478)", Ahnentafel, http://worldconnect.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?o.

    2. [S12772] "William (Say) de Say (1253 - bef. 1295)", Biography, Pedigree & Registry, https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Say-78, abstrac.

    3. [S12769] "John Cheney (abt. 1320)", Biography, Pedigree & Descendants, https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Cheney-151, abstracted by Da.

    4. [S12771] "Sibyl (Marshal) de Say (abt. 1213 - abt. 1270)", Profile,Predigree & Registry, https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Marshal-32.